Advanced Improvisation

[Brandon Holland]

Hey guys! First post on here so I hope I'm doing this correctly. So I've been playing guitar for several years, inspired to play lead by THE Synyster Gates himself. I am entirely self taught, all by ear, and mostly deal with improvisational playing through church and other similar gigs.

The problem is, I want to apply a lot of the cool stuff I've learned from Syn over the years (such as some diminished stuff, some cool shred patterns, interesting note choices, etc.). The problem is, all of the music I'm playing is simple chord progressions (1,4,5,6 type stuff). I can shred all through the major and minor scales, and I understand enough about modes to apply them sparingly, but I've gotten so bored with my note choices. I would love to implement more diminished/dominant jazzier stuff, and I have tried Youtube and other sources, but I can't find anything that applies this interesting playing to the boring chord progressions that I am stuck playing. Nothing I am playing over has any dominant 7's or diminshed flat 5's and what not, making it seemingly impossible to mix what I've learned from Syn with the type of music I am playing multiple times a week.

Sorry for the essay, but I'm hoping that you guys can help me where nothing else has.

 

[Ed Seith]

I'm the LAST person to come to for theory, but in some ways, the simpler the progression, the MORE options you have to go outside the box. Try experimenting with passing tones outside the regular modes and keys you would go to. I did a quickie lesson a while ago, where I demoed that idea in the simplest way.

Let's say, on your high E you're playing a fast repeat pattern of 12-13-15-13.

What happens if you change that, and ONLY that, to 11-12-15?

It sounds way different, that's what happens. Syn knows a shit-ton of theory, but he also knows when to go outside of it for a feeling or effect.

 

[Brandon Holland]

I'm the LAST person to come to for theory, but in some ways, the simpler the progression, the MORE options you have to go outside the box. Try experimenting with passing tones outside the regular modes and keys you would go to. I did a quickie lesson a while ago, where I demoed that idea in the simplest way.

Let's say, on your high E you're playing a fast repeat pattern of 12-13-15-13.

What happens if you change that, and ONLY that, to 11-12-15?

It sounds way different, that's what happens. Syn knows a shit-ton of theory, but he also knows when to go outside of it for a feeling or effect.

I appreciate your response! I've been a predominantly improvisational player since I picked up the guitar when I was 14. I started with SRV blues pentatonic stuff, then little by little I added to my arsenal, learning the major and minor scales, the modes, etc. On the side, I was learning Syn's solos. But I never figured out how to really blend the two worlds together. Syn does alot of cool stuff of course, but his chord progressions are interesting and usually power chords, allowing for far more experimentation and "out of the box" playing. Unfortunately, when you're improvising over major 1, 4, and 5, with a minor 6 and the occasional minor 2, there's not a whole lot that works outside of major and minor scales, with the occasional chromatic spurt. I've been able to squeeze in some harmonic minor once in a blue moon, but I would love to unlock the mental block that allows me to utilize what I love about Syn's playing so much. A lot of it is his use of diminished and dominant scales, but I can't seem to make it work. Anyways, sorry for the essay again lol.

 

[OskarF]

I've played for like 15 years but only started really learning theory and improvisation a few years ago, so i'm no improv expert by any means but i think i might have some valuable thoughts at least

My approach to it might be unconventional, but maybe you'll relate as you've also learned a lot by ear. Many of my favorite guitar solos are the ones that sound like singing almost and that's what i want to achieve with my playing. I've found that expanding my knowledge of the fretboard and practicing ways to implement licks etc in my improvisation is not necessarily significant to my progress, instead it's practicing the most basic stuff that has made a big difference for me and i took an absolute giant leap when i first discovered it. Like forcing myself to focus on a single position of the pentatonic and just working on playing what i hear in my head and connecting with that "inner voice" to be able to get it out as pure as possible. I find that the better i get at this the more interesting note choices im able to make during improvisation.

One of the best ways i've found to work on the connection between my fingers and my inner voice is to play along to songs i know well and to imitate the vocal lines with my guitar - i'll know the melody before it happens and then try to get it out of my head through the guitar and i'll instantly know if i got it right or not. This is also a really good way to practice getting the nuances down that vocalists apply, like very small bends and slides and things like that, which all contribute to making phrasing and note choice sound more interesting and natural.

I think to be able to improvise with other scales you could use this same approach to practice using them to get the sound kind of imprinted in your head so that you don't have to think about the fretboard so much but instead just hear it in your head and intuitively find your way to play it - it can be useful to work on being able to sing or whistle the scale and improvise with it along with music because that way you're removing a layer (the instrument) that demands brain power, which allows you to focus more on what you're actually trying to do. And if you learn that then you know can learn to do it with your instrument as well.

Hope this makes at least some sense and that it doesn't just seem rational in my own head hahah.. As i said im on the journey of learning this stuff as well, but these are some of the most important realizations i've had that helped me progress a lot.

 

[Brandon Holland]

I've played for like 15 years but only started really learning theory and improvisation a few years ago, so i'm no improv expert by any means but i think i might have some valuable thoughts at least

My approach to it might be unconventional, but maybe you'll relate as you've also learned a lot by ear. Many of my favorite guitar solos are the ones that sound like singing almost and that's what i want to achieve with my playing. I've found that expanding my knowledge of the fretboard and practicing ways to implement licks etc in my improvisation is not necessarily significant to my progress, instead it's practicing the most basic stuff that has made a big difference for me and i took an absolute giant leap when i first discovered it. Like forcing myself to focus on a single position of the pentatonic and just working on playing what i hear in my head and connecting with that "inner voice" to be able to get it out as pure as possible. I find that the better i get at this the more interesting note choices im able to make during improvisation.

One of the best ways i've found to work on the connection between my fingers and my inner voice is to play along to songs i know well and to imitate the vocal lines with my guitar - i'll know the melody before it happens and then try to get it out of my head through the guitar and i'll instantly know if i got it right or not. This is also a really good way to practice getting the nuances down that vocalists apply, like very small bends and slides and things like that, which all contribute to making phrasing and note choice sound more interesting and natural.

I think to be able to improvise with other scales you could use this same approach to practice using them to get the sound kind of imprinted in your head so that you don't have to think about the fretboard so much but instead just hear it in your head and intuitively find your way to play it - it can be useful to work on being able to sing or whistle the scale and improvise with it along with music because that way you're removing a layer (the instrument) that demands brain power, which allows you to focus more on what you're actually trying to do. And if you learn that then you know can learn to do it with your instrument as well.

Hope this makes at least some sense and that it doesn't just seem rational in my own head hahah.. As i said im on the journey of learning this stuff as well, but these are some of the most important realizations i've had that helped me progress a lot.

Thank you for the response! Very interesting approach! I've dabbled a little in applying the vocal melodies, so I'll have to make this a standard practice for me for sure.

 

[OskarF]

Thank you for the response! Very interesting approach! I've dabbled a little in applying the vocal melodies, so I'll have to make this a standard practice for me for sure.

Awesome! I'd love to know how it goes if you try it out And feel free to hit me up here or in DMs if you wanna talk more about improv or whatever cos it's always fun discussing that stuff - and processing ideas and thoughts into words is also really helpful when learning

 

[Brandon Holland]

Awesome! I'd love to know how it goes if you try it out And feel free to hit me up here or in DMs if you wanna talk more about improv or whatever cos it's always fun discussing that stuff - and processing ideas and thoughts into words is also really helpful when learning

Absolutely! I'll give you a follow for sure and we can throw some ideas around.