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CAGED System – The C Shape – Lesson 24

hypertensao

Garage band Groupie
Jul 11, 2020
8
9
Portugak
Am I the only one that finds these to be entirely unhelpful. We're given the pentatonic scale one time and then the dude just jams over it. It moves far too quickly and you can't play along at all. You just end up watching him without being at all familiar with the shape yet. This feels a far cry from a beginner lesson.

I feel you bro.
First time i looked into the video, guitar in hand and then PapaGates just starts blitzing over the fretboard and improvising.
I am very sure that this lesson (and very likely this whole module) is supposed to be more theoretical. If you look at other places, you will see that CAGED system is BIG (even if you don't fully understand the concept as I do). Maybe the purpose is to really get to know one of the major chords in Rock music...
So, just take it slow. If you feel frustrated, just avoid it for a couple of days and practice cord changes or learn a new riff/song.

For this lesson I am doing the following as practice:
-Play the arpeggio/chord/double stops
-Play the scale
-Play the pentatonic
-Mix scales and chords at random to see how they sound
-Slow down the video to 50/75% and play over his tracks
-I watched the video from Jak Angelescu on the first page and it also helps out

Suggestion:
It would be amazing if we could have some exercises at the end of each lesson, either as a separate video, or an exercise sheet. I have been basically copying what PapaGates is doing on the videos (but i have really bad imagination:) )
 

idssdi

Sold-out Crowd Surfer
Nov 11, 2019
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I feel you bro.
First time i looked into the video, guitar in hand and then PapaGates just starts blitzing over the fretboard and improvising.
I am very sure that this lesson (and very likely this whole module) is supposed to be more theoretical. If you look at other places, you will see that CAGED system is BIG (even if you don't fully understand the concept as I do). Maybe the purpose is to really get to know one of the major chords in Rock music...
So, just take it slow. If you feel frustrated, just avoid it for a couple of days and practice cord changes or learn a new riff/song.

For this lesson I am doing the following as practice:
-Play the arpeggio/chord/double stops
-Play the scale
-Play the pentatonic
-Mix scales and chords at random to see how they sound
-Slow down the video to 50/75% and play over his tracks
-I watched the video from Jak Angelescu on the first page and it also helps out

Suggestion:
It would be amazing if we could have some exercises at the end of each lesson, either as a separate video, or an exercise sheet. I have been basically copying what PapaGates is doing on the videos (but i have really bad imagination:) )
What kind of exercises are you looking for? Just some utilizing the c shape or also the use of it?
 

Imactuallyadrummer

Campfire Attention Holder
May 27, 2020
49
107
Toronto, Ontario
0
I feel you bro.
First time i looked into the video, guitar in hand and then PapaGates just starts blitzing over the fretboard and improvising.
I am very sure that this lesson (and very likely this whole module) is supposed to be more theoretical. If you look at other places, you will see that CAGED system is BIG (even if you don't fully understand the concept as I do). Maybe the purpose is to really get to know one of the major chords in Rock music...
So, just take it slow. If you feel frustrated, just avoid it for a couple of days and practice cord changes or learn a new riff/song.

For this lesson I am doing the following as practice:
-Play the arpeggio/chord/double stops
-Play the scale
-Play the pentatonic
-Mix scales and chords at random to see how they sound
-Slow down the video to 50/75% and play over his tracks
-I watched the video from Jak Angelescu on the first page and it also helps out

Suggestion:
It would be amazing if we could have some exercises at the end of each lesson, either as a separate video, or an exercise sheet. I have been basically copying what PapaGates is doing on the videos (but i have really bad imagination:) )

I think you don’t have to worry so much about the PG improv. I feel like he is just trying to show you the potential of what you can do if you play over the scales. By playing over his improvs you are likely building up more manual dexterity more than anything.

get thru the rest of the exercises, then quickly watch them again. Then watch the stuff at the beginning again. It sounds tedious but the lessons aren’t that long, and I promise for some reason every time you look back,something new will click.

instead of playing the exercises I think it will help to ask yourself some questions about the concepts of the lesson as I feel these series are more theory heavy than playing heavy.

for example...do you know why he specifically adds those “extra” notes into the arpeggios? or how he came up with the pentatonic scale off the arpeggio?

for actual exercises I think just practicing the “CAGED” positions all over the neck for all bites is the best practice you can get for now.
 
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Brian Haner Sr.

Papa
Staff member
Legend+
Fucking Legend
Nov 11, 2019
808
3
3,503
Exactly. Don't dwell on what I'm playing. I'm just showing some possibilities - and how I approach it. Once you understand the concept; chord shapes, arpeggios and pent scale - then it's your job to come up with your own things to play. Fool around with it. It's all a big game of "what if". What if I play this? What if I play that? Some things will suck and some things won't. Record EVERYTHING because you never know when you're going to play something cool. Then go back and learn the cool stuff. Put it in your tool box. Build a catalogue of licks that work over the C shape. Then do the same for the A shape.
This stuff is hard. It's supposed to be. Dig in!
 

Imactuallyadrummer

Campfire Attention Holder
May 27, 2020
49
107
Toronto, Ontario
0
If I may add, I thought many of the examples given are very good exercises. They are all pretty short, but it's a recording and you can highlight the parts you want to practice eg. the double stops, slow them down. Take the part you just learned and you can play i over the backing track located next to the speed settings. I recommend leaving the metronome always on clicking. ( you don't always have to pay attention to it )
There's a lot of information in these videos, I'm sure they tried really hard to keep it as short as possible and trying not to leave things out. Plus it's in an order they think would boost your playing the fastest. Oh and correctly.

they are good exercises, but I think without understanding its roots, the exercises will feel a little empty and would be no different than just playing a song in one particular position. By looking at the associated major scale and how the chords are derived from it I feel the lessons will have a lot more substance to it
 
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idssdi

Sold-out Crowd Surfer
Nov 11, 2019
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@Imactuallyadrummer I don't know, when I think root it's lowest bottom? Maybe it's easy to make power chords and than just hit it, let it ring than hit 4 of those notes and than change chord? sry i can't focus right now
Root basically implies the root of the chord you're playing. So for example if you have an E you have E G# B. So you have a root that's E, said E doesn't always have to be the lowest note in the chord. Inversions are still the same chord, it's about the intervals that are present in the chord(1 3 5). You also have inverted power chords for example and they sound killer.
 

idssdi

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Nov 11, 2019
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they are good exercises, but I think without understanding its roots, the exercises will feel a little empty and would be no different than just playing a song in one particular position. By looking at the associated major scale and how the chords are derived from it I feel the lessons will have a lot more substance to it
Could you clarify/specify which info you're missing? I can probably help with that
 

Imactuallyadrummer

Campfire Attention Holder
May 27, 2020
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107
Toronto, Ontario
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Could you clarify/specify which info you're missing? I can probably help with that

LOL! What a confusing post hahaha. I meant to say something like - If you don’t understand the background how and why the chords are formed (1, 3, 5) then the lesson feels like it’s a little too much and doesn’t make much sense. I didn’t even mean to imply root note 😧
 

idssdi

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If he didn't say the Major chord was made up of 1,3,5, I would have never known it was 1,3,5. I'm still kind of stuck on why and how do I figure out a Minor chord without someone telling me? Sorry if I'm confusing you guys, I'm confused a bit myself. I've just been kind of going by ear and patterns.
Does the 1,3,5, thing apply to playing chords as well? I've seen people talk about "ok, now lets do the 1,3,5 progression" or something like that. Would the 1,3,5 be the chords C,G,D? using CAGED as the 1=C 2=A and so on
For minor chords you flatten the third. So for E minor you get E G B instead of E G# B.

What's meant with a 1-3-5 chord progression is a I-iii-V chord progression they imply the degree of the key your in. For example if you take the E major chord family in the key of E major you have a I chord which is The E, a iii chord which is a G# minor and a V chord which is B.

CAGED only refers to the chord shapes to make transitions possible, it doesn't tell anything about the harmony.
 

Imactuallyadrummer

Campfire Attention Holder
May 27, 2020
49
107
Toronto, Ontario
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If he didn't say the Major chord was made up of 1,3,5, I would have never known it was 1,3,5. I'm still kind of stuck on why and how do I figure out a Minor chord without someone telling me? Sorry if I'm confusing you guys, I'm confused a bit myself. I've just been kind of going by ear and patterns.
Does the 1,3,5, thing apply to playing chords as well? I've seen people talk about "ok, now lets do the 1,3,5 progression" or something like that. Would the 1,3,5 be the chords C,G,D? using CAGED as the 1=C 2=A and so on

he does talk about the composition of a major chord, as well as a major scale, very early on in the lesson in the fundamentals which is why I say it’s worth reviewing those lessons even later on because you’ll get something new out of them every time. I believe he does touch on minor chords later as well

The important thing I had to really wrap my head around as a beginner is, remember CAGED is just a reference to SHAPES. if you look at the lesson names they talk about C shape, A shape... etc. But they (the lessons) are all in the D major scale. caged system gives you a basic “formula” on how to play the D major chord all over the neck in these lessons

man if I don’t know what I’m talking about someone please straighten me up, I’m relatively new too but really trying to understand sotheory alongside playing 😂
 
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idssdi

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your right, I was thinking maybe how would someone learn music through only reading and looking at diagrams, and not through umm hearing asstinance
Maybe a starting point for me is, learning the "intervals" (probably wrong word) in the basic scales? like half step whole step half step? Than also practice memorizing the names of each note on the board to find the roots? If I stay on one topic too long I get lost
Only through reading is done by knowing the fretboard really well. I sometimes read tabbooks as if they are an actual book and hear the notes in my head.

And yes you should start with intervals and the major scale, they are the basis of music theory.
 

Imactuallyadrummer

Campfire Attention Holder
May 27, 2020
49
107
Toronto, Ontario
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your right, I was thinking maybe how would someone learn music through only reading and looking at diagrams, and not through umm hearing asstinance
Maybe a starting point for me is, learning the "intervals" (probably wrong word) in the basic scales? like half step whole step half step? Than also practice memorizing the names of each note on the board to find the roots? If I stay on one topic too long I get lost

I can’t tell ya how to start cause I’m still in that learning phase myself. Also luckily I already know the basis of the major scale from my drumming days and sitting through everyone else learning it lol But it is a really good start - the major scale and what you can derive from it. Really the fact that I had to learn about the major scale as a drummer probably speaks about its importance about it being the fundamentals.
As for memorizing the fretboard is something I accept that is going to take a long time if ever... there are some “landmarks” that help me but for now I accept that I’m just going to be counting frets 😂
 
Last edited:

AccessionUntoVoid

Garage band Groupie
Aug 10, 2020
1
2
www.youtube.com
5
Even though I've been playing the guitar for about 5 years. It was only today that I learnt about the CAGED system. I took classes from a tutor in the beginning but his method of teaching was different I guess....
Anyways I am so glad I found this website with such a great quality of lessons. I love syn so so much for it and I am sure I'll become a great artist one day.
 

Simon Austin

Free Bird Player
Nov 11, 2019
1
5
I get what you are saying. I Had a Lot of Problems with this at First. But I think you Just have to approach it differently. If PG teaches you a chord or a scale learn it. Nobody wants you to be able to apply it on the Spot. Then PG Shows you whaz you CAN do with only the Material of the Lesson. That's a Goal you want to achieve, Not something you should already be able to do.
Hell, I've been through all CAGED Lessons and already wrote my own stuff and still can't improvise on the Spot Like PG.

At the end of the day These lessons are Not ment to binge watch and then you know a whole Bunch of stuff. You are supposed to Take your time, practice the basics and If you can play the scales and chords introduced and understood everything PG Said, then you can move on. Ideally With showing us what you've learned ;)

However If you DON'T understand what's explained in the Lessons don't hesitate to ask even the dumbest sounding questions in the Forum and you WILL get Help. It can be difficult to grasp for beginners, I know that First hand.

Hope that helped you a little :)

Edit: and If you want to Play along to it, every lesson also has a backing track to Jam over it!
Thanks, this was very helpful. I was wondering when I should consider moving on. I have years of experience but I'm coming back into guitar after a break. I get the concepts quickly and can play the scales easily when I have either a scale reference or sheet music but I don't have both the Pentatonic and Major scales fully memorized yet for C. I think I'll move on to A and then continue to memorize all 4. Chords are a little awkward, but they don't really give me much trouble (other than that I'm a little slow to form them).
 

MFeldsher8883

Stairway to Heaven Tab Studier
Jan 27, 2020
5
2
Philadelphia PA
If you're having problems with the chords go to the chord part before caged. Then when you get to caged the bar positions are easier to find and the dots will.be easier to connect. It's all about finding the same notes in a different spot on the guitar.
I'm just coming back to this now after a year, and still confused. I know the chords , I have no problem with bar chords or chords in general. I am just frustrated with trying to understand what key I'm playing in when I play in different positions. And do you only play the maj, arpeggios, and pent. Over that specific chord or can you play any of those over any chord? I am so confused with the whole concept of the caged system period.
 

Calvin Phillips

Music Theory Bragger
Nov 11, 2019
2,588
1,988
I'm just coming back to this now after a year, and still confused. I know the chords , I have no problem with bar chords or chords in general. I am just frustrated with trying to understand what key I'm playing in when I play in different positions. And do you only play the maj, arpeggios, and pent. Over that specific chord or can you play any of those over any chord? I am so confused with the whole concept of the caged system period.
Every shape is literally the same chord just in a different spot on the fretboard. They all are the same 3 notes. (1 3 5).

If you are playing a different shape in the same position it's a matter of finding the root in the position
 
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MFeldsher8883

Stairway to Heaven Tab Studier
Jan 27, 2020
5
2
Philadelphia PA
What specifically are you struggling with? Like the other guys said it's rewarding when it finally clicks. Didn't make sense to me the first time either. You gotta rewatch a few times, pause and practice based on the diagrams even when you don't understand what the hell he's talking about, Google shit, get frustrated, practice again, take a break, come back to the video and somehow it suddenly makes sense. Typically it happens in that order. Don't give up, tell us where you're struggling and someone here will explain what's the what.
I am struggling with trying to understand what key I'm playing in when I play in different positions. And do you only play the maj, arpeggios, and pentatonic. Over that specific chord or can you play any of those over any chord? I am so confused with the whole concept of the caged system period. I spent the last year just trying to get better with playing in time and learning songs and now I am back but feel like I even though I have a 19 months of playing under my belt I still don't really understand music theory or the caged system thing anymore then I did a year ago. I recently purchased the Beato book from Rick Beato and I wasted my money because I just don't understand it. The caged system is just as confusing. I think because I don't have a Great Ear ,Not being able to recognize what chords are being played unless I am playing them is a major problem. I don't know what I can and can't play over . Like when papa gates played the arpeggio over the backing track. He said this is just a backing track in A . If he didn't say it was in A I would have never figured out what it was. I just cannot distinguish what is being played unless I am told or it is written. I know this is a lot to unpack,and I am just rambling, but this is the problems I am having.
 

MFeldsher8883

Stairway to Heaven Tab Studier
Jan 27, 2020
5
2
Philadelphia PA
Every shape is literally the same chord just in a different spot on the fretboard. They all are the same 3 notes. (1 3 5).

If you are playing a different shape in the same position it's a matter of finding the root in the position
I get that but say I'm in F , you have F G A A# C D E . So if im playing in F then switch to A then to G can I only play the arpeggios or scales in A over A or can I play the ones in F over all of em?